Jam turn or call and c/c any river here?

[RNGkillmenow]

1st hand of the 5 quad... dontt hink thisd is ever a bluff. AQ is def a possibility.

PokerStars Game #38934657700: Tournament #281110975, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2010/01/29 20:18:11 ET
Table '281110975 35' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Slade37 (2470 in chips)
Seat 2: Noctambulist (2500 in chips)
Seat 3: AMEC04 (7500 in chips)
Seat 4: pottwal_rule (7480 in chips)
Seat 5: esperrenke (2500 in chips)
Seat 6: Igal Z (2500 in chips)
Noctambulist: posts small blind 10
AMEC04: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AMEC04 [Kc Kh]
esperrenke is connected
Dandolf is connected
Igal Z is connected
Matthias21 is connected
pottwal_rule: raises 80 to 100
esperrenke: calls 100
Igal Z: folds
Slade37: folds
DuaneT is connected
Noctambulist: folds
Matthias21 re-buys and receives 2500 chips for $5.00
AMEC04: raises 320 to 420
pottwal_rule: calls 320
esperrenke: calls 320
*** FLOP *** [Ks 3d Jh]
Matthias21 re-buys and receives 2500 chips for $5.00
Noctambulist re-buys and receives 2500 chips for $5.00
Dandolf re-buys and receives 2500 chips for $5.00
DuaneT re-buys and receives 2500 chips for $5.00
AMEC04: bets 640
pottwal_rule: calls 640
esperrenke: folds
*** TURN *** [Ks 3d Jh] [Ts]
DuaneT is sitting out
AMEC04: bets 1350
pottwal_rule: raises 1350 to 2700
AMEC04: ?????????????

[RNGkillmenow]

obv Im never folding, but is AQ high enough of a % of his range to just c/c here? BC its basically a straight or a set that gets it in here, some weird 2p would probably fold to a shove. I could see someone showing up w/ AA here and not being able to get away.

Also if he is bluffing (rarely but occassionally u see it), a shove gets him out and we lose value from a possible river bluff.

Do we care about saving 3-4K for the times he has a straight?

[RNGkillmenow]

and also if he has a lower set, then we are likely to get it in on any non 9/Q/A river card.

[Pates]

Was your flop bet to induce? I realise the board is safe but the bet is a little weak. I'm getting that in every day on the turn. 10 outs to imrpove dude if for some reason he does have AQ. Doesn't get better.

[RNGkillmenow]

yeah pretty std for me bet half pot here. I prob bet more if a fourflush is there. I was also playing 12 tables.

[Pates]

I think it's fair to induce on that flop. Pretty damn safe board. Aslong as you do the same when you have nothing ;)

[aamir6433]

You don't need balance in $5 tournaments. Villain is probably shoving nearly all rivers and we're never folding so i'm flatting the turn. This i think maxes valoo out of most of his range (which KK crushes obvs) plus if he's floating, and if then he has AQ then wpwp. If we shove turn i think we lose value from some hands which could get away but would be inclined to c/c a river value bet.

[RNGkillmenow]

You don't need balance in $5 tournaments. Villain is probably shoving nearly all rivers and we're never folding so i'm flatting the turn. This i think maxes valoo out of most of his range (which KK crushes obvs) plus if he's floating, and if then he has AQ then wpwp. If we shove turn i think we lose value from some hands which could get away but would be inclined to c/c a river value bet.

i agree here although shovign cannot be bad either. i did just call and then it went check check on a Q river. he had JJ.

[Pates]

You're kidding me? Flat the turn out of position? No ways in a mirrion years. I'm getting it in on the turn all day long and I defy anyone who says otherwise. FD and 3 card straight out, not only do we hate them coming, but so will villain (most likely). I think we look stronger flatting a 2bet on the turn if anything + wth, we have almost all the chips in ayway

[RNGkillmenow]

I just think all the hands we are going to get it in with on the turn we are still going to get in on any non A/Q/9 river.

I tink either way is perfectly fine way to play the hand. I just wonder which way others prefer to play it.

[RNGkillmenow]

And I dont think position is important here since so much of the money is in already. it now comes down to maximizing our value when we are good (which is most of the time), and not folding out the hands we have crushed. I do see people minraise/fold to a shove here.

another agrument for shoving here would be that there are some 2p hands he would call a shove on the turn but check back on the river with.

[Pates]

I just think all the hands we are going to get it in with on the turn we are still going to get in on any non A/Q/9 river.

So why wait till the river when they can fold or even we can fold? Why let AK/AJ get there? They've put in enough chips to committ themselves to a call so why would we want to see a river here? ever? Imo this has to be a turn shove or else we're just losing a ton of value.

[RNGkillmenow]

well once i call te turn, Im not folding to any river. shouldnt say never, but you know what I mean.

[RNGkillmenow]

u really think he is going to call off with one pair here? I think we fold out almost everything we beat except sets and maybe some 2p hands. why not let him overplay his hand on the river?

Plus the odds of him having a 2p hand to call off with here is diminished bc I have 3 of the Kings. So like KJ/KT/JT is it. and I do not think he ever calls off with a one pair/SD combo.

[RNGkillmenow]

dont get me wrong though, I def see the side of shoving... and Im kind inching toward your arguement. but I dont really see either way of playing the hand as being bad.

[891327]

I'm with PlateFish here. I think I'm shoving here all day, I don't agree that we're not getting value from some 2 pair hands it being the rebuy period of a $5 rebuy and I think that are any A/Q/9 river lose value out of some hands that are stacking off on the turn and you're checking it down with on the river. Also, if you think any hands you're getting it in with on the turn are getting in on a non A/Q/9 river, then isn't it better to get it in here so as not to miss value from some of these these hands if A/Q/9 does come?

[aamir6433]

FD and 3 card straight out, not only do we hate them coming, but so will villain (most likely). I think we look stronger flatting a 2bet on the turn if anything + wth, we have almost all the chips in ayway

This is a good point. Being a rebuy i definitely would shove turn. Though in a normal situation flatting turn would still work well for the times he'll have 1pair/weak 2p/air which makes up a decent amount of his range and could be gotten away from on the turn. Maybe you don't need to do this in a $5 tourney as most opponents with AK happily get it in probably.

[Pates]

But is he really folding a pair here? If he has a pair it's most likely with a gutshot. After 2 betting the turn I just can't see how he'd get away from any holding.

[RNGkillmenow]

its not really a rebuy, its a 2r1a, and both myself and te villian were both in for the MAX, so no more rebuys.

[Mike]

He's shown quite a lot of strength, I shove and hope the board pairs.

[JD3lta]

Fishhooks always get cracked wth

[Pates]

Jacks cracked by Kings? That's one I haven't heard yet.

That's like saying 27o cracked by Aces...

[JD3lta]

They're just predisposed to lose

[bizkit]

It's a $5 tourney why would you want to check call a river when you don't know for sure they're going to bet it & many scare cards can come out. You've got like the 2nd well technically speaking 3rd nuts but in either case to beat you they would have had to flat the flop with opponents behind them to act with a gutter. I think more opponents are going to call with a weird two pair hand like KT more than they're going to bet it on the river especially a bad river.

Next time indicate its a one rebuy, one add on in the first post. It could affect the decision but not in this case.

[RNGkillmenow]

I indicated it was the $5 quad in the first post. Quad meaning 2 rebuy/1add on.

[bizkit]

I indicated it was the $5 quad in the first post. Quad meaning 2 rebuy/1add on.

My bad, wasn't familiar with that term.

[Pates]

Goes for 1r1a = Cubed.

I was unfamiliar until of it until a few weeks ago.