QQ cash game situation

[bigmacrmuk]

Both hero and villain have about £40 (200 BB's) in front of them. Game is 5-handed. I've already mentioned this situation to a couple of you, but I wanted to open it up to a few more to pick apart my line. QQ is a hand I do have trouble playing correctly in moderately deep cash games, and it proved so again here.

Villain raises from button+1 to 4xBB (80p)
I am on button and have :Qh :Qs, 3bet to £3
Folded back round to vill who reraises to £10.

In the actual game, I tanked for a while, then flatted. Flop came :Ks :7c :4d, vill bet £15 promptly and I folded. Vill turned over (Spoiler text in white) KK for the top set.(End spoiler text.)

Now, I wanted to know a couple of things about what you guys would do with this hand. Firstly, would you preflop:

a.) Call as I did (does vill 4bet often enough OOP with JJ or AK or lower pair even to make shoving a 'safe' flop +EV here?)

b.) Shove and put it down to the Gods if vill turns over KK or AA because you're 5-handed and QQ is very likely best? Again, is vill 4betting OOP enough with weaker hands than you to make this profitable?

c.) Fold because neither flatting in position or shoving are profitable here.

Secondly, if you do flat and the flop bricks out (no A or K), how do you proceed if vill either checks to you or bets out?



Would really appreciate your opinion on this because I honestly can't figure out what line would be good here. Or is it a situational thing?

[bridgey321]

Info on villain. There must be some surely. Hu was it?

[thefairy]

why dont you say who villain is? this would help.

QQ calling off 15 quid with 40 quid total is horrible, shove, fold, call in that order.

You say hes aggro and 4 bets alot well hes cbetting most flops, if you are going to lay down queens to any ace or king just randomly even though 3 hands in his range beat you fair enough, but you need to be getting in queens there, or fold, you just went set mining with the 3rd best had in holdem.

[bigmacrmuk]

Sorry - villain was Garreth, so fairly tight-aggressive, and not known to 4bet many hands pre (in my experience playing with him, anyway).

Game was 5-handed as I said before, but was HU before he made his 4bet.

In light of this I probably should have folded pre given what I know about the opponent, but is this the same facing any 4bet with QQ? Is it a purely situational thing based on what you know about the player who has 4bet? Obv now I know it is a shove or fold with these stacks, NOT a call, but deciding which of those to do is purely based on the vill?

[thefairy]

Sorry - villain was Garreth, so fairly tight-aggressive, and not known to 4bet many hands pre (in my experience playing with him, anyway).

Game was 5-handed as I said before, but was HU before he made his 4bet.

In light of this I probably should have folded pre given what I know about the opponent, but is this the same facing any 4bet with QQ? Is it a purely situational thing based on what you know about the player who has 4bet? Obv now I know it is a shove or fold with these stacks, NOT a call, but deciding which of those to do is purely based on the vill?

vs garreth fold pre is prolly best. ayh you got that on the nail sir.

[bridgey321]

Pffft getting it in all day vs Garreth. He's not a fckin nit. His range has got to be pretty wide here particularly against you Ross. Although granted I haven't played that much cash with you lot.

[Litellio]

Jam pre.

[thefairy]

Pffft getting it in all day vs Garreth. He's not a fckin nit. His range has got to be pretty wide here particularly against you Ross. Although granted I haven't played that much cash with you lot.

Garreth doesn't ever 4 bet generally.

[Litellio]

Garreth doesn't ever 4 bet generally.

True, but QQ is pretty strong AND IT IS ROSS HERE :D so I think jamming pre is ok.

[The Incompetent-Donkey]

Garreth doesn't ever 4 bet generally.

I concur, from what I've seen he's generally quite passive pre and aggressive post.

[bridgey321]

I concur, from what I've seen he's generally quite passive pre and aggressive post.

Yer thats what I thought but still I don't think his range is KK+/AK. Although:
- U guys play more with him than me.
- U guys play more cash.

So i'll gracefully bow out!

[bizkit]

Yer thats what I thought but still I don't think his range is KK+/AK. Although:
- U guys play more with him than me.
- U guys play more cash.

So i'll gracefully bow out!

Just from posts he's made I would fold this preflop. I think it could be tighter than KK+/AK even if you drop it to JJ+,AK its only borderline break even(like 47%)...of course there are some dead chips since you 3bet.

[The Incompetent-Donkey]

Just from posts he's made I would fold this preflop. I think it could be tighter than KK+/AK even if you drop it to JJ+,AK its only borderline break even(like 47%)...of course there are some dead chips since you 3bet.

I wouldn't include JJ in his range but I would include QQ as I've seen him 4bet this before. I've also seen him fold AK to a 3bet (it was a pretty big 3bet mind you).

So IMO Gaz's 4bet range is usually QQ+ and a splattering of AK, which QQ does very badly against.