Could I have got more value?

[tan_man25]

Did I play this well?

Was I perhaps a bit too aggresive and maybe lost value as a result?

Thoughts please.

[bridgey321]

I think you can bet about 575 here, should be enough to get any dirty gutshot straight draw out and may keep a K interested. The only draw you are really worried about is QJ, which is a possibility. 575 should get this to fold if the player is any good but I know many people struggle to get away from open end draws, even after the turn.

But personally:
- Fold preflop. You are UTG+1, probably going to be out of position for the rest of the hand. Limping just opens you up to be raped, BTN/CO shouldve raised here then you would probably be priced in to call to try and flop a set and simply have to check-fold if you don't.
- I suppose you can raise but again UTG+1 you are probably going to get flatted and you are out of position. I do prefer this to limping as you can imply a big hand raising from UTG+1, can take control of the pot and make a continuation bet on most board textures.

Personally I just lead to folding preflop from that position.

[thefairy]

imo you check the turn allow someone with Kx to bet 300 to bet out the flush draw ND straght draw and then shove so they are 'valued' in. why on earth did you shove turn?

dave why would you fold pre? ur oop but if you hit ur set you can get ppl to massivly pay you off in a sit and go by checking a turn.

[aamir6433]

Originally Posted by thefairy

dave why would you fold pre? ur oop but if you hit ur set you can get ppl to massivly pay you off in a sit and go by checking a turn.

I agree with Bridgey 100%.

I'm gonna hit that set 1 in 8 times. For the times i don't hit there's pretty much nowt i can do - i'm out of position, and my limp has probably led to a multi-way pot.

Even when you do hit your set, i think it's a misconception that just because the strength of your hand will be disguised it'll equal you winning a big pot. You're playing the whole hand OOP, and you're still gonna have to hope your opponent has also hit hard to extract value. Plus next time you limp in EP (tan man is too good a play to be doing it regularly) it's going to be blatant what you have.

IMO, fold small pockets in early position in sngs.

[bizkit]

Preflop: I would probably fold this preflop. Yes, you can try to set mine here but there's a lot of issues. At a tighter table someone will often pop the limpers and you won't know if its going to be waterfalled or not. If anyone isolates you, you're not in a great spot. If its a lower buy in tourney you might see a limp followed by a raise then when you call another raise or even an all in. If there's two raises in front of you then you probably only lose $20 chips but still its a loss.


Postflop Turn: At a smaller buy in / looser table I don't really have a problem with the all in. You'll often get called by kings or even QJ sometimes. Otherwise, I'm sort of torn whether or not to go all in or lead with the 1/2 what your stack is left bet. You're not completely pricing out a combo draw that hits on the turn like . You also won't be happy if he hits A or 9 with QJ and you go broke on the river. But, I think you still have to bet out any river all in assuming either call if you take this line. So there's 8 really bad rivers(assuming the button calls the turn) and another 8 unlikely somewhat bad cards that river a backdoor flush without pairing the board. At first when I analyzed it I didn't like the 5xx-6xx bet much but I think its probably optimal at most non low buy in I have a king and will call anything type tables.

[bridgey321]

Yeah, I think that you can't really give someone credit for a heart draw unless as bizkit said they have some sort of / apart from that I don't think that this board is too draw heavy so you can make a sort of value bet of around 500-600 imo, this should also get most draws to fold. I think most players at this level are stacking off with even to a turn (slightly over) shove.

As far as the question of folding preflop goes, yes it cost us 20 chips to see the flop in this case but if you limp you will often get raised and end up putting in 7-10% of your stack. You will also not always get payed if you hit your set. I think a mistake that I make when playing is that when I go set mining, I assume that I am going to win a huge pot and this is often not the case. (especially OOP)

As we established in a previous post it is vital to keep your chips and putting in up to 10% of your stack pre (as you could do here if you get priced in by numerous callers) and missing is quite important. In terms of winning a big pot, it may be big in terms of bbs but later on in the tourney if I have played tight enough to get to the 200/400 stage then I can win the same amount of chips with a well timed 3 bet steal. In cash we are obviously playing this hand in order to win a big pot and we can just reload to 100bbs if we miss but in tournaments/sngs these frittered away chips do cost us.

[Gerrard48LFC]

fold pre, 500 bet on turn.

[nath0175]

i dnt think u need to check raise flop, i think flat flop that guy bet pot on flop which shows some strength as opposed to half pot. i owuld check call on flop and possible check raise on the turn only because of the draw. If u check raise flop and strong bet turn or shove turn it screams set to me. I get alot of tag players playing like this with sets and i would be laying down aces to ur play some of time and if i checked ur sharkscope definite fold. on the plus side u did get 40 times ur investment preflop so it was profitable in long run.

[SirJonnyP]

i agree with nath, you can't check-raise the flop. a check/call, then a check raise on the turn will probably get you the most money me thinks, assuming that they fold the turn.

[tan_man25]

Fair points from everyone I think. The reason I check raised the flop is because there were 2 people still in the pot. I wanted to isolate to reduce the risk of being outdrawn...

And yes, before anyone says it, I know I'm a nit.

With regards to the limp, it is not a regular play of mine. I occasionally like to mix my play up and the reason I did is because I had previously trapped someone with a monster hand, UTG limp. Therefore, I was hoping that they would suspect the same play again and allow me to see a flop, lol. MEEETAAA GAAAMMME!