99-JJ to a reraise

[bridgey321]

This topic was slightly raised in another thread and it got me thinking. What does everyone do in this situation?

MTT, relatively deep (say 100 people left), you have an average stack of about 25bbs.

UTG+1 you are dealt / / and raise to 3bbs
MP then raises to 9bbs
Folded round, what do you do here?

Some points:
1. This is of course assuming that you have no real information on MP/he seems pretty standard TAG
2. You have a similar TAG image and you raised out of UTG+1 so you can assume(i think) that he is not making a play with a marginal.
3. You do not have implied odds to try and flop a set:
= pot is currently 13.5bbs
= you have to call 6bbs
= assuming you can double up if you flop set, you can win another 16bbs,
= this means you have to call 6bbs to win 29.5bbs
= so you don't have implied odds (by my calculations you need 9 to 1 to go set mining, although if im wrong please say!)

- Right so you are out of position and can safely say he has AK/AQ/AA/KK/QQ/JJ.
ie you are racing or you are crushed.
- If you choose to flat call, do you hope the flop comes with undercards, then check-call all in or open shove ( play though)?
- You could reshove and possibly fold out AQ/JJ although if you do get called the only hand you are in ok shape vs is AK and then you are flipping for your tourney
- You could of course just fold in this spot, although folding JJ to a 3 bet pre could be too tight, its just a very tough spot.

Very interested to see what people think! Discuss and vote!
Personally I'm going to vote fold, because i'm a nit!

[Pates]

I voted fold because I fold TT and 99 but possibly call JJ. This is too much of a tough spot to be in with 25bbs and a 3-bet from MP isn't going to be any lighter than AQ.

You could shove back with JJ and represent an absolute monster and quite possibly have them fold AK/QQ/JJ/AQ and you take down a pot almost 50% of your chips... + AK might call and give you quite likely a CL pot on a flip.

25bbs isn't too comfortable so I'm looking for chips fast, but I think these 3 hands aren't quite strong enough to do it with. UTG+1 4-bet all in with huge fold equity could have someone folding AK/QQ me thinks.

[Gerrard48LFC]

its got to be shove/fold surely. i dont think you can call off a 1/3d of your stack and then c/f the flop when it comes overcards come.

as you say you are either racing or you are crushed. very tough decision. **** it, 4bet all in i want to run deep!¬

[ccottis]

Don't think you can call, all-or-nothing situation and with 99/TT I think fold
JJ maybe shove depends on where abouts the bubble/real cash is as you are relatively comfortable if you fold

[nickstrick1]

I plainly wouldn't treat 99-JJ as a same-play-bracket here.
I would smooth JJ with the intention of c/f'ing to an A or K board.
I don't really think you can put AQ in the villains range if you don't have any information on him. I wouldn't assume he's 3-betting my UTG+1 Raise with AQ.

The truth is without any information about the player I can't really have an opinion on what to do in that tight spot, i'd probably have to fold most of the time and wait for more info.

[Litellio]

its got to be shove/fold surely. i dont think you can call off a 1/3d of your stack and then c/f the flop when it comes overcards come.

as you say you are either racing or you are crushed. very tough decision. **** it, 4bet all in i want to run deep!¬

I agree it's shove / fold. I think this is an incredibly tough spot, hardest in Holdem maybe. I think fold just edges shove here, purely from your description of him, I dont think ppl ever come over the top here with AJ or less, so I'd have to fold it, and hope he doesn't show AK.

[ROCKART]

this is definitely an all-in or fold situation. calling and looking for a set is out of the question.

in a cash game id call this bet oop all day, but in a tournament, especially relatively deep, the only responsible play is to fold.

EVEN IF you are ahead, its only by a few % points......

[Pates]

I just think creating a 50bb pot with JJ preflop is unnecessary... but then leaving yourself with 16bbs after calling is bad too. I'm leaning more towards just folding.

[The Incompetent-Donkey]

(by my calculations you need 9 to 1 to go set mining, although if im wrong please say!)

Your wrong, in a tourney the attitude of taking long shots 7.5 to 1 on flop, but 9 to 1 effective just to double up is the wrong way of playing it. Your tourney life gets hurt a lot more the 8 out of 9 times you don't flop good than the one time you do and double through.

Relatively shallow (but not emergency) stacks I think should require 15+ to 1.

Like in all situations Dave I think the best thing to do would be put a range on this guy. The thing I don't like about "TAG image" or 21/17 etc, is that these statements alone tell you little, you might get a 77/11 with a 3bet of 1% at which point you instamuck, and you could equally get a 14/13 with a bet of 7% at which point you should shove as there are enough AQs+o,TT/99's in his range to be ahead.

Then you might find that they skew their 3betting range, they might religiously flat with AKs, but repop it with 55+ which would give a 3bet of 4.5% but against a range where you have 60% equity, opposed to the same broadness of range but better balanced at AQ+ TT+, where you're a bit worse than a coinflip against the range.

[Litellio]

Then you might find that they skew their 3betting range, they might religiously flat with AKs, but repop it with 55+ which would give a 3bet of 4.5% but against a range where you have 60% equity, opposed to the same broadness of range but better balanced at AQ+ TT+, where you're a bit worse than a coinflip against the range.

I'll be honest, although much of what you've written I agree with totally, I've never seen anyone who flats with AKs and 3-bets 55-TT.