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Last hand of level 4 blinds 200/400 ante 25, hero is UTG 10 handed with 14K which is about average stack. I limp, 1 more limper in middle position (pretty loose passive, limps alot) and then folds to small blind (only other player at the table I rate at all). Small blind raises to 2800 leaving 3700 behind...
Your play is?
I'll post what I actually did in the end after other people have had a chance to reply
Moderator
Raise pre please.
[QUOTE=hithenose_home;23283]
Everyone who has responded to this is a MORON except Gerrard.[/QUOTE]
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Long Time Winner
Raise pre i think. Then fold. With the amount hes left behind he's never doing this light, and you haven't committed much. Plus if we then shoved MP might think "value!!!" (assuming this is broadway and hes typically retarded) and call, followed by "well i'm getting 3 to 1 and i knew he had nines" (conveniently after you've turned your 99 over) but yeah, nits opinion given. I think we'll be behind his range enough of the time and if the rest of the table is poor we can allow these marginal ones.
Administrator
Raise preflop UTG. We can't speculate at all about what SB has seeing as raising into an unraised pot is a lot easier than 3-betting a UTG raiser with very little fold equity.
His raise isn't strong either imo. I see people raising with 10-15bbs and then folding to shoves. I also saw someone raise with 7bbs, I reluctantly mucked ATo and guy behind me shoved and OR folded. Here he raises 7bbs of his 21bb stack. This doesn't really make any sense, I don't know why he would do this with AA/KK. Me thinks this is AK/AQ or low pair he wants to get in.
Maybe it's Legit
probably depends on a lot of factors, not just poker related ones, i probably shove as played though im always raising 99 UTG. if you wanna duck the variance and pass thats fine too.
Won More $$$
I'm raising here most of the time with 99 but I called this time, I'd also just shown down 88 the hand before having raised pre UTG+1 so it was really a range balancing call pre more than anything. Firstly I'm not worried about the other limper with as many hands as he's limp/folded. This looked to me like he didn't wanna play a flop OOP, which takes AA, KK, QQ and maybe even JJ out of his range. I think his range here is AK-AJ, 1010-77. This makes the shove pre horrible IMO seeing as I'm flipping against that range and I don't want to flip for that much of my stack at that point in the tournament. In the end I decided to call having decided the range of flops I was happy enough getting stacks in with, any flop with an ace I give up, any flop with 2 or more overcards I give up and any flop with just one over card that isn't an ace or any flop with no overcards I get it in.
The flop came K42 and he check folded. I was out 4 hands later btw when I lose a 35K pot, I get it in with 67 on a board of J854 aginst JJ and an 8 hits the river
Administrator
Calling here and giving up on A high flop isn't a great strat. I'm absolutely amazed he check folded but if I was you I'd get it in pre. Most players with more than 1 braincell will shove the flop whatever comes after committing that much. So hands that you actually beat will push you out if you go for folding when over cards hit. Also, he might've made the raise with 88/77/66/55/33 in which case he'd have to call a shove pre but can get away with check/folding on that flop after you flat.
I think taking a flip for half your stack here isn't bad at all.
With these stacks in play, there is no point in playing a flop. Either get it in pre or fold imo. I find it hard to see a case for flatting.
Suspicious
I didn't think there would be much else on this site to comment on, but this is an excellent thread and situation, so I can't resist leaving a reply on this one.
Online is totally different, so this comment would only apply to a live tourney, as I am a live player. I was in a similar situation in a £50 tourney. I had a slightly bigger stack relative to the blinds, but I had been card dead for some time. I was under the gun with 99. I raised 3 times the BB, and it was folded all the way round to the BB who reraised me a sizeable amount which was over half my stack. After looking at her, and talking to her, and considering the sort of player she was, I worked out I was behind and folded my hand. I made it look like a tough fold, but it wasn't. She turned over KK.
"Good fold and good play" said a likeable, but very experienced and talented pro 3 seats away. "Just as well you raised or you wouldn't know to fold. You wouldn't know where you were and you'd have been dead. That's why you have to raise with those hands in early."
On tv a player limped in with 88 in early. Phil Hellmuth was commentating and said "I have no problem with that. He's limped in, now he can call a raise if he wishes. If he had raised preflop, then he would have to fold to the reraise." Sometimes that's the way I play those middling pairs too.
On both those hands you always have to take into account who you are playing against, and what they may do preflop or post flop. If you are against a very pushy player then your thoughts on where you are and what to do may differ to a tight conservative type player. This is where the skill and judgement comes in. There is rarely one correct way to play one given hand in one given situation.
Both strategies are fine with me. If they are fine with pros then they are fine with me. The thing is you just have to know WHY you are doing what you are doing. If you know that, then you will know what actions to take after either calling or raising.
Last edited by TheSquirrel; 01-05-2010 at 05:09 PM.
Won More $$$
Just to make it clear, this was live.
I figured he was shoving any flop, I was suprised when he check/folded. I think considering the range I put him on (AK-AJ, 1010-77) this was the best play against that range, I don't think I need to take a flip there by shoving pre when I think I can dodge some of the variance by seeing a flop. On any flop with an ace I'm well behind his range (about 27% equity against that range) whereas on a random K high flop (such the K42 flop that came) its about 57%. If you're including any pair in his range then I think a shove preflop is fine but I don't like it with against the range I put him on.
But maybe my read here was wrong and maybe 99 plays alot better preflop in that situation than I thought
Long Time Winner
Explain more how you're discounting these hands? His bet sizing? Sounds a bit like you think he limps OTB if he has AA.Originally Posted by 891327
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